Sedevacantist and Traditional Catholics who Stay with the Pope | Traditional Catholic Priest (2023)

This entire article provides no substantial or objective evidence to back up his claim.

“Fr.” Carota says, “there is a great deal of disagreement between all the sedevacantist?” Oh really? Theologians have always have differences of opinion on the interpretations of certain doctrine. On the other hand, do all the Novus Ordo “bishops” and even the post Vatican II “popes” agree with one another? Most, if not all, sedevancantists agree with the essential doctrines of the faith.

“Fr.” Carota says his suggestion is to “honestly and lovingly talk together.” I know this man personally, and I can say for a fact that he does not want to know the truth, because if he realizes he is wrong, then he must change his position or abandon his current theological position.

A while back, myself, and a handful of people provided him with theological sources explaining the sedevancatist position, and yet, he could not provide a single rebuttal or answer to any of our questions.

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You said, “there is nothing that will take me away from the pope.” Ok, then submit to all of Vatican II doctrine; embrace the New Mass, new catechism, theology, canon law, encyclicals, and every approved law that came out of the Novus Ordo church. If you claim to be obedience to your church, then submit to his decrees.

✦“We teach and declare that the Roman Church, by the disposition of the Lord, holds the sovereignty of ordinary power over all others, and that this power of jurisdiction on the part of the Roman Pontiff, which is truly episcopal, is immediate; and with respect to this the pastors and the faithful of whatever rite and dignity, both as separate individuals and all together, are bound by the duty of hierarchical subordination and true obedience, not only in things which pertain to faith and morals, but also in those which pertain to the discipline and government of the Church [which is] spread over the whole world, so that the Church of Christ, protected not only by the Roman Pontiff, but by the unity of communion as well as of the profession of the same faith is one flock under the one highest shepherd. This is the doctrine of Catholic truth from which no one can deviate and keep his faith and salvation” (Vatican I, Dogmatic Constitution De Ecclesia Christi, DZ 1827; Canon 218).

•“Further, by divine and Catholic faith, all those things must be believed which are contained in the written word of God and in tradition, and those which are proposed by the Church, either in a solemn pronouncement or in her ordinary and universal teaching power [magisterium], to be believed as divinely revealed” (Vatican Council I, Dogmatic Constitution on the Faith, DZ 1792).
•“For even if it were a matter concerning that subjection which is to be manifested by an act of divine faith, nevertheless, it would not have to be limited to those matters which have been defined by express decrees of the ecumenical Councils, or of the Roman Pontiff and of this See, but would have to be extended also to those matters which are handed down as divinely revealed by the ordinary teaching power of the whole Church spread throughout the world, and therefore, by universal and common consent are held by Catholic theologians to belong to faith” (Pope Pius IX Encyclical Tuas Libenter, DZ 1683).

You can’t honestly read this and reject Vatican II and its decrees.

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You say that the Vatican II “popes” are inconsistent with Catholic dogma. Interesting. Pope Leo XIII says:

✦“No one who merely disbelieves in all can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single heresy he is not a Catholic” (Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Satis Cognitum [9]).

“No one who merely disbelieves in all can for that reason regard himself as a Catholic or call himself one. For there may be or arise some other heresies, which are not set out in this work of ours, and, if any one holds to one single heresy he is not a Catholic” (Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Satis Cognitum [9])

✦St. Robert Bellarmine (1610) “A pope who is a manifest heretic automatically (per se) ceases to be pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.” De Romano Pontifice. II.30.
✦St. Alphonsus Liguori (†1787) “If ever a pope, as a private person, should fall into heresy, he would at once fall from the pontificate.” Oeuvres Complètes. 9:232

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So is Francis I Catholic or not? Is John Paul II Catholic or he isn’t?

Where does the Church teach that we have to have a pope at all time? The longest interregnum was 2 or 3 years. Did the Church ceased to exist then?
In 1882 a book was published in England called The Relations of the Church to Society – Theological Essays, comprising twenty-nine essays by Fr. Edmund James O’Reilly S.J., one of the leading theologians of his time. The book expresses with wonderful clarity and succinctness many important theological truths and insights on subjects indirectly as well as directly related to its main theme.

For our purposes the book has in one respect an even greater relevance than it did at the time of publication, for in it Fr. O’Reilly asserts with the full weight of such authority as he possesses, the following opinions:
1.that a vacancy of the Holy See lasting for an extended period of time cannot be pronounced to be incompatible with the promises of Christ as to the indefectibility of the Church; and
2.that it would be exceedingly rash to set any prejudged limits as to what God will be prepared to allow to happen to the Holy See (other, of course, than that a true pope will never fall into heresy, nor in any way err).

Finally, you said that we should “stay with the pope and work to stop them.” I would think that if he’s the pope then he should know what he’s doing, and yet you’re telling him what and what not to do. Ironic.

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I’ll end this with this quote:

Vatican I (1869), Serapius Iragui (1959) “What would be said if the Roman Pontiff were to become a heretic? In the First Vatican Council, the following question was proposed: Whether or not the Roman Pontiff as a private person could fall into manifest heresy?

“The response was thus: ‘Firmly trusting in supernatural providence, we think that such things quite probably will never occur. But God does not fail in times of need. Wherefore, if He Himself would permit such an evil, the means to deal with it would not be lacking.’ [Mansi 52:1109]

“Theologians respond the same way. We cannot prove the absolute unlikelihood of such an event [absolutam repugnatiam facti]. For this rea- son, theologians commonly concede that the Roman Pontiff, if he should fall into manifest heresy, would no longer be a member of the Church, and therefore could neither be called its visible head.” Manuale Theologiae Dogmaticae. Madrid: Ediciones Studium 1959. 371.

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1. Sedevacantism
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2. Great Proof Texts For Sedevacantism Show That Francis Is Not The Pope
3. Sedevacantism in Three Minutes
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4. What have the sedevacantists got right? Why we should listen to them.
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5. Dealing with a Sedevacantist Priest
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6. What Is Your Opinion on Catholic Traditionalism? — Bishop Barron on Vatican II
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